Comments on: The Spirit(s) of the Festival http://benabuya.com/2008/03/19/the-spirits-of-the-festival/ looking for alternative explanations Wed, 10 Mar 2010 11:38:31 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Pro-Bible Atheism -- a Nadder! http://benabuya.com/2008/03/19/the-spirits-of-the-festival/#comment-7836 Pro-Bible Atheism -- a Nadder! Tue, 30 Sep 2008 08:15:25 +0000 http://deba.wordpress.com/?p=359#comment-7836 [...] eventual triumph of the socially marginalised EstherPolitical cartoonMore archetypes plus the element of satire DanielTim Burton movieCombination of the hellish, the sublime, the ludicrous Ezra/NehemiahMovie [...] [...] eventual triumph of the socially marginalised EstherPolitical cartoonMore archetypes plus the element of satire DanielTim Burton movieCombination of the hellish, the sublime, the ludicrous Ezra/NehemiahMovie [...]

]]> By: Simon Holloway http://benabuya.com/2008/03/19/the-spirits-of-the-festival/#comment-7717 Simon Holloway Mon, 24 Mar 2008 02:59:55 +0000 http://deba.wordpress.com/?p=359#comment-7717 The word for cup, in Hebrew, is /kos/ (כוס), which only ever appears in the Bible as a feminine word. For that reason, "the fifth cup" would be /kos haChamishit/, or /kos haKhamishit/ (depending on your preference; כוס החמישית in Hebrew). In Aramaic, however, "cup" is /kas/ or /kasa/ (כס, כסא), and appears as a masculine word. This may be the reason behind the Hebrew word also becoming masculine in the period of the Mishna's composition. Jastrow lists it as being either masculine or feminine, but Rabbinic references to the fifth cup of wine are always /kos haChamishi/ - that is, without the /t/ on the end (כוס החמישי). Sorry if that was too much detail. What you are looking for, I suspect, is "kos haChamishi". But I can't resist an opportunity to gush grammar. The word for cup, in Hebrew, is /kos/ (כוס), which only ever appears in the Bible as a feminine word. For that reason, “the fifth cup” would be /kos haChamishit/, or /kos haKhamishit/ (depending on your preference; כוס החמישית in Hebrew). In Aramaic, however, “cup” is /kas/ or /kasa/ (כס, כסא), and appears as a masculine word. This may be the reason behind the Hebrew word also becoming masculine in the period of the Mishna’s composition. Jastrow lists it as being either masculine or feminine, but Rabbinic references to the fifth cup of wine are always /kos haChamishi/ – that is, without the /t/ on the end (כוס החמישי).

Sorry if that was too much detail. What you are looking for, I suspect, is “kos haChamishi”. But I can’t resist an opportunity to gush grammar.

]]> By: Stacey http://benabuya.com/2008/03/19/the-spirits-of-the-festival/#comment-7716 Stacey Mon, 24 Mar 2008 01:45:15 +0000 http://deba.wordpress.com/?p=359#comment-7716 Do you know how to say "The Fifth Cup" in Hebrew (i.e., transliteration?) Do you know how to say “The Fifth Cup” in Hebrew (i.e., transliteration?)

]]> By: Iyov http://benabuya.com/2008/03/19/the-spirits-of-the-festival/#comment-7714 Iyov Sun, 23 Mar 2008 19:40:57 +0000 http://deba.wordpress.com/?p=359#comment-7714 "those of us who were actually responsible for the festival" I didn't know you were a Roman. “those of us who were actually responsible for the festival”

I didn’t know you were a Roman.

]]> By: In Defence of Purim -- a Nadder! http://benabuya.com/2008/03/19/the-spirits-of-the-festival/#comment-7707 In Defence of Purim -- a Nadder! Fri, 21 Mar 2008 04:06:28 +0000 http://deba.wordpress.com/?p=359#comment-7707 [...] buy it for a second. Of course some claim the whole story is meant as a parable, mystery play or a joke, that the events in the Book of Esther didn't happen historically. I think this is true, but has [...] [...] buy it for a second. Of course some claim the whole story is meant as a parable, mystery play or a joke, that the events in the Book of Esther didn’t happen historically. I think this is true, but has [...]

]]> By: Simon Holloway http://benabuya.com/2008/03/19/the-spirits-of-the-festival/#comment-7706 Simon Holloway Wed, 19 Mar 2008 02:49:55 +0000 http://deba.wordpress.com/?p=359#comment-7706 'Fraid not. Despite the fact that it clearly is comedic, exegetes have traditionally read it literally. In some ways, that's the funniest bit of all. ‘Fraid not. Despite the fact that it clearly is comedic, exegetes have traditionally read it literally. In some ways, that’s the funniest bit of all.

]]> By: Michael http://benabuya.com/2008/03/19/the-spirits-of-the-festival/#comment-7705 Michael Wed, 19 Mar 2008 01:54:09 +0000 http://deba.wordpress.com/?p=359#comment-7705 You're probably right -- I know some classical Jewish sources say Job is a parable, do you know if any do the same for Esther? You’re probably right — I know some classical Jewish sources say Job is a parable, do you know if any do the same for Esther?

]]> By: Simon Holloway http://benabuya.com/2008/03/19/the-spirits-of-the-festival/#comment-7704 Simon Holloway Wed, 19 Mar 2008 01:24:06 +0000 http://deba.wordpress.com/?p=359#comment-7704 You raise a good point. This wasn't really a serious post, but I did once write about this topic in a post called <a href="http://deba.wordpress.com/2007/03/01/esthers-mirror/" rel="nofollow">"Esther's Mirror"</a>. Part of the carnivalesque nature of the festival, so far as I am concerned, is in the way that the different protagonists are paralleled with one another. I felt, and do feel, that the Persians who are willing to exterminate the Jews are being paralleled with the Jews who are willing to exterminate the Persians. If we read the book seriously and literally then we might take something else from it, but there are too many indications within the text that it is a comedy. You raise a good point. This wasn’t really a serious post, but I did once write about this topic in a post called “Esther’s Mirror”. Part of the carnivalesque nature of the festival, so far as I am concerned, is in the way that the different protagonists are paralleled with one another. I felt, and do feel, that the Persians who are willing to exterminate the Jews are being paralleled with the Jews who are willing to exterminate the Persians.

If we read the book seriously and literally then we might take something else from it, but there are too many indications within the text that it is a comedy.

]]> By: Michael http://benabuya.com/2008/03/19/the-spirits-of-the-festival/#comment-7703 Michael Wed, 19 Mar 2008 01:07:22 +0000 http://deba.wordpress.com/?p=359#comment-7703 "murdering all the people by whom they feel threatened" ?? -- i think it was a bit more serious than that -- since according to the story the plan was to exterminate all jews in persia i reckon this would be the equivalent of jews having the opportunity to kill 70,000 ss officers etc before the holocaust started -- which i think would be a cause of celebration. “murdering all the people by whom they feel threatened” ?? — i think it was a bit more serious than that — since according to the story the plan was to exterminate all jews in persia i reckon this would be the equivalent of jews having the opportunity to kill 70,000 ss officers etc before the holocaust started — which i think would be a cause of celebration.

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