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	<title>Comments on: Israeli vs. Hebrew: a Contemporary Linguistic Debate</title>
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	<link>http://benabuya.com/2006/12/02/israeli-vs-hebrew-a-contemporary-linguistic-debate/</link>
	<description>looking for alternative explanations</description>
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		<title>By: Knut Holt</title>
		<link>http://benabuya.com/2006/12/02/israeli-vs-hebrew-a-contemporary-linguistic-debate/#comment-7777</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Knut Holt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 14:17:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[The term &quot;aspect&quot; do not have any clear definition. You can define awspect as compleated verus incompleted or completed versus ongoing versus not yet begun within the time frame of a story.

This kind of aspect actually is a kind of realtive tense - relative to the time frame the story. If the time frame is present, that often is the default tme frame, such an aspect system actually works as a tense system.


But you can also define aspect as a whole action versus a partial action versus a beginning action versus a finishing action versus repeated action. This type of aspect have no tense implications.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The term &#8220;aspect&#8221; do not have any clear definition. You can define awspect as compleated verus incompleted or completed versus ongoing versus not yet begun within the time frame of a story.</p>
<p>This kind of aspect actually is a kind of realtive tense &#8211; relative to the time frame the story. If the time frame is present, that often is the default tme frame, such an aspect system actually works as a tense system.</p>
<p>But you can also define aspect as a whole action versus a partial action versus a beginning action versus a finishing action versus repeated action. This type of aspect have no tense implications.</p>
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		<title>By: Codex: Biblical Studies Blogspot &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Biblical Studies Carnival XIII</title>
		<link>http://benabuya.com/2006/12/02/israeli-vs-hebrew-a-contemporary-linguistic-debate/#comment-255</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Codex: Biblical Studies Blogspot &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Biblical Studies Carnival XIII]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jan 2007 23:48:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deba.wordpress.com/2006/12/02/israeli-vs-hebrew-a-contemporary-linguistic-debate/#comment-255</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Finally, prompted by a post by Tyler Williams, Simon Holloway has an interesting post on the differences between Biblical, Rabbinic, and Modern Israeli Hebrew: &#8220;Israeli vs. Hebrew: a Contemporary Linguistic Debate.&#8221; [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Finally, prompted by a post by Tyler Williams, Simon Holloway has an interesting post on the differences between Biblical, Rabbinic, and Modern Israeli Hebrew: &#8220;Israeli vs. Hebrew: a Contemporary Linguistic Debate.&#8221; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Simon Holloway</title>
		<link>http://benabuya.com/2006/12/02/israeli-vs-hebrew-a-contemporary-linguistic-debate/#comment-131</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Simon Holloway]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Dec 2006 03:00:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Thanks, David - I have recently had this pointed out to me on another blog as well. My experience with Zuckermann was limited to a particular book of his (&lt;i&gt;Language Contact and Lexical Enrichment in Israeli Hebrew&lt;/i&gt;) and a lecture that he gave at Sydney University some years back.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, David &#8211; I have recently had this pointed out to me on another blog as well. My experience with Zuckermann was limited to a particular book of his (<i>Language Contact and Lexical Enrichment in Israeli Hebrew</i>) and a lecture that he gave at Sydney University some years back.</p>
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		<title>By: David Cohen</title>
		<link>http://benabuya.com/2006/12/02/israeli-vs-hebrew-a-contemporary-linguistic-debate/#comment-125</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Cohen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Dec 2006 11:16:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Two brief comments:

Firstly, I do not think the GH in the first name &quot;Ghil&#039;ad&quot; has anything to do with spirantization. I guess it has more to do with Prof. Zuckermann&#039;s Italian descent (see Ghirardelli vs Jirardelli?)

Secondly, as opposed to what you say, Professor Zuckermann has published a lot on non-lexical components of what he calls &quot;Israeli&quot;. For example, I have found the following articles in his website http://www.zuckermann.org/:

Zuckermann, Ghil&#039;ad 2006. &#039;Complement Clause Types in Israeli&#039;, pp. 72-92 of Complementation: A Cross-Linguistic Typology, edited by R. M. W. Dixon and A. Y. Aikhenvald, Oxford: Oxford University Press. 

Zuckermann, Ghil&#039;ad 2006. &#039;Direct and Indirect Speech in Straight-Talking 
Israeli&#039;. Acta Linguistica Hungarica 53.4: 1-15. 

Zuckermann, Ghil&#039;ad 2006. &#039;A New Vision for &quot;Israeli Hebrew&quot;: Theoretical and Practical Implications of Analysing Israel&#039;s Main Language as a Semi-Engineered Semito-European Hybrid Language&#039;. Journal of Modern Jewish Studies 5.1: 57-71. 

Zuckermann, Ghil‘ad 2005. ‘“Abba, Why Was Professor Higgins Trying to Teach Eliza to Speak Like Our Cleaning Lady?”: Mizrahim, Ashkenazim, Prescriptivism and the Real Sounds of the Israeli Language’. Australian Journal of Jewish Studies 19. 

Zuckermann, Ghil&#039;ad. 2005. &#039;The Israeli Language&#039;. The Mendele Review: Yiddish Literature and Language 09.013. 

Zuckermann, Ghil‘ad 2004. ‘The Genesis of the Israeli Language: A Response to “Philologos”&#039;s “Hebrew vs. Israeli”’. The Mendele Review: Yiddish Literature and Language 08.013. 

Zuckermann, Ghil&#039;ad 2006 [submitted]. &#039;Israeli as a Semi-Engineered Semito-European Language: Multiple causation, Forms and Patterns&#039; 

Zuckermann, Ghil&#039;ad 2006 [submitted]. &#039;hasafá haisraelít kemusá mekhkár 
atsmaí: khashivút gisható shel rozén ladèmistifikátsya shel &quot;tkhiát 
haivrít&quot;&#039; (The Israeli Language as an Object of Independent Study: The 
Importance of Rosén&#039;s Approach to the Demystification of the &#039;Hebrew 
Revival&#039;). 

Zuckermann, Ghil&#039;ad 2007 [forthcoming]. &#039;The Semantics of Clause Linking in Israeli&#039;. 

Zuckermann, Ghil&#039;ad 2006 [submitted]. &#039;Comparative Constructions in Israeli&#039;. 

Zuckermann, Ghil&#039;ad 2006. &#039;Direct and Indirect Speech in Straight-Talking 
Israeli&#039;. Acta Linguistica Hungarica 53.4: 1-15. 

David.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two brief comments:</p>
<p>Firstly, I do not think the GH in the first name &#8220;Ghil&#8217;ad&#8221; has anything to do with spirantization. I guess it has more to do with Prof. Zuckermann&#8217;s Italian descent (see Ghirardelli vs Jirardelli?)</p>
<p>Secondly, as opposed to what you say, Professor Zuckermann has published a lot on non-lexical components of what he calls &#8220;Israeli&#8221;. For example, I have found the following articles in his website <a href="http://www.zuckermann.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.zuckermann.org/</a>:</p>
<p>Zuckermann, Ghil&#8217;ad 2006. &#8216;Complement Clause Types in Israeli&#8217;, pp. 72-92 of Complementation: A Cross-Linguistic Typology, edited by R. M. W. Dixon and A. Y. Aikhenvald, Oxford: Oxford University Press. </p>
<p>Zuckermann, Ghil&#8217;ad 2006. &#8216;Direct and Indirect Speech in Straight-Talking<br />
Israeli&#8217;. Acta Linguistica Hungarica 53.4: 1-15. </p>
<p>Zuckermann, Ghil&#8217;ad 2006. &#8216;A New Vision for &#8220;Israeli Hebrew&#8221;: Theoretical and Practical Implications of Analysing Israel&#8217;s Main Language as a Semi-Engineered Semito-European Hybrid Language&#8217;. Journal of Modern Jewish Studies 5.1: 57-71. </p>
<p>Zuckermann, Ghil‘ad 2005. ‘“Abba, Why Was Professor Higgins Trying to Teach Eliza to Speak Like Our Cleaning Lady?”: Mizrahim, Ashkenazim, Prescriptivism and the Real Sounds of the Israeli Language’. Australian Journal of Jewish Studies 19. </p>
<p>Zuckermann, Ghil&#8217;ad. 2005. &#8216;The Israeli Language&#8217;. The Mendele Review: Yiddish Literature and Language 09.013. </p>
<p>Zuckermann, Ghil‘ad 2004. ‘The Genesis of the Israeli Language: A Response to “Philologos”&#8217;s “Hebrew vs. Israeli”’. The Mendele Review: Yiddish Literature and Language 08.013. </p>
<p>Zuckermann, Ghil&#8217;ad 2006 [submitted]. &#8216;Israeli as a Semi-Engineered Semito-European Language: Multiple causation, Forms and Patterns&#8217; </p>
<p>Zuckermann, Ghil&#8217;ad 2006 [submitted]. &#8216;hasafá haisraelít kemusá mekhkár<br />
atsmaí: khashivút gisható shel rozén ladèmistifikátsya shel &#8220;tkhiát<br />
haivrít&#8221;&#8216; (The Israeli Language as an Object of Independent Study: The<br />
Importance of Rosén&#8217;s Approach to the Demystification of the &#8216;Hebrew<br />
Revival&#8217;). </p>
<p>Zuckermann, Ghil&#8217;ad 2007 [forthcoming]. &#8216;The Semantics of Clause Linking in Israeli&#8217;. </p>
<p>Zuckermann, Ghil&#8217;ad 2006 [submitted]. &#8216;Comparative Constructions in Israeli&#8217;. </p>
<p>Zuckermann, Ghil&#8217;ad 2006. &#8216;Direct and Indirect Speech in Straight-Talking<br />
Israeli&#8217;. Acta Linguistica Hungarica 53.4: 1-15. </p>
<p>David.</p>
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		<title>By: S.</title>
		<link>http://benabuya.com/2006/12/02/israeli-vs-hebrew-a-contemporary-linguistic-debate/#comment-122</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[S.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Dec 2006 21:53:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[&gt;I do not think that Dr Zuckermann subscribes to the same bizarre Judeophobia.

I agree, although I admit that I actually know nothing of his politics.

&gt; In addition to being Jewish himself (does that make a difference?

Surely not!

In general, the reason why many Jews might seem a bit paranoid about this theory is for the reason outlined by Joe in Australia. From a purely scholarly perspective it might be an exciting question, but the question is more than just academic.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;I do not think that Dr Zuckermann subscribes to the same bizarre Judeophobia.</p>
<p>I agree, although I admit that I actually know nothing of his politics.</p>
<p>&gt; In addition to being Jewish himself (does that make a difference?</p>
<p>Surely not!</p>
<p>In general, the reason why many Jews might seem a bit paranoid about this theory is for the reason outlined by Joe in Australia. From a purely scholarly perspective it might be an exciting question, but the question is more than just academic.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon Holloway</title>
		<link>http://benabuya.com/2006/12/02/israeli-vs-hebrew-a-contemporary-linguistic-debate/#comment-104</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Simon Holloway]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Dec 2006 05:06:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deba.wordpress.com/2006/12/02/israeli-vs-hebrew-a-contemporary-linguistic-debate/#comment-104</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Curious logic! But, while I think that there may be something in that (for some), I do not think that Dr Zuckermann subscribes to the same bizarre Judeophobia. In addition to being Jewish himself (does that make a difference? Perhaps not) he has also lectured in Israel and - to the best of my knowledge - accepts the existence of the Zionist State. Besides, you don&#039;t need to be either a Zionist or a Judeophile to appreciate Israeli Hebrew as Semitic; nor do you need to be an anti-Zionist or a Judeophobe to acknowledge that it&#039;s a fabricated language. Perhaps it&#039;s both?

Incidentally, some scholars of old (see Ernst Renan, the &#039;father of Semitics&#039;) thought of Biblical Hebrew as a hodge-podge language as well. As far as they were concerned, the true geniuses were the Sumerians (not Semitic!) and the Semites were an ignorant Arabian people who stole all that was good about their Northern neighbours. And Jesus? Why, Jesus was Galilean! That makes him one of the people (descended from Sumer, of course) who ended up in Palestine after the Assyrian population shift. It all makes so much sense...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Curious logic! But, while I think that there may be something in that (for some), I do not think that Dr Zuckermann subscribes to the same bizarre Judeophobia. In addition to being Jewish himself (does that make a difference? Perhaps not) he has also lectured in Israel and &#8211; to the best of my knowledge &#8211; accepts the existence of the Zionist State. Besides, you don&#8217;t need to be either a Zionist or a Judeophile to appreciate Israeli Hebrew as Semitic; nor do you need to be an anti-Zionist or a Judeophobe to acknowledge that it&#8217;s a fabricated language. Perhaps it&#8217;s both?</p>
<p>Incidentally, some scholars of old (see Ernst Renan, the &#8216;father of Semitics&#8217;) thought of Biblical Hebrew as a hodge-podge language as well. As far as they were concerned, the true geniuses were the Sumerians (not Semitic!) and the Semites were an ignorant Arabian people who stole all that was good about their Northern neighbours. And Jesus? Why, Jesus was Galilean! That makes him one of the people (descended from Sumer, of course) who ended up in Palestine after the Assyrian population shift. It all makes so much sense&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Joe in Australia</title>
		<link>http://benabuya.com/2006/12/02/israeli-vs-hebrew-a-contemporary-linguistic-debate/#comment-103</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joe in Australia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Dec 2006 03:33:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deba.wordpress.com/2006/12/02/israeli-vs-hebrew-a-contemporary-linguistic-debate/#comment-103</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;So why is there this baffling phenomenon in regards to Israeli Hebrew?&lt;/i&gt;

It&#039;s because Jews are not real. Let me explain.

Christian theology is ultimately replacement theology. Jesus, they assert, is the figure foretold by the Jewish scriptures. Those scriptures focus very heavily on the Jews and so they are necessarily reinterpreted: prophecies of salvation and so forth are understood to refer to the Church, the new Israel. This understanding is fundamental to Christianity, which is in turn fundamental to the Western intellectual tradition. There is therefore a pervasive meme that Jews are imposters, that their identity is no more than an assertion of a status to which  they are not entitled. In other words, Jews are intrinsically unreal.

In the hands of Arthur Koestler and many modern antisemites the myth of the Jewish Khazar empire becomes an assertion that Jews are &quot;really&quot; Khazars. I can&#039;t recall what the British Israelites assert, although I know that some have accepted the Khazar conspiracy theory. The point is that they too assert that Jews are not the &quot;real&quot; Jews.

In the hands of nationalists Jews are the rootless cosmopolitans: they are not &quot;really&quot; English or German, they are Jews. Worse, they are not Israeli either - the territory of Israel is &quot;really&quot; Arab, and the Jewish presence there is an historical mistake. You can quite readily find Arab nationalist tracts that deny there was ever a Jewish presence in Israel.

Why should it be surprising that linguistics is subject to the same meme? Hebrew alone, of all the world&#039;s languages, has a &quot;real&quot; form which is to be contrasted with the unreal jargon spoken by Israelis. I speak English, as did Chaucer, although he wouldn&#039;t understand me nor I understand him. Hebrew is different, because Jews assert an association with it. Since Jews are unreal, their language must also be unreal. Hebrew is a real language, therefore Israeli Hebrew must be an unreal language. QED.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>So why is there this baffling phenomenon in regards to Israeli Hebrew?</i></p>
<p>It&#8217;s because Jews are not real. Let me explain.</p>
<p>Christian theology is ultimately replacement theology. Jesus, they assert, is the figure foretold by the Jewish scriptures. Those scriptures focus very heavily on the Jews and so they are necessarily reinterpreted: prophecies of salvation and so forth are understood to refer to the Church, the new Israel. This understanding is fundamental to Christianity, which is in turn fundamental to the Western intellectual tradition. There is therefore a pervasive meme that Jews are imposters, that their identity is no more than an assertion of a status to which  they are not entitled. In other words, Jews are intrinsically unreal.</p>
<p>In the hands of Arthur Koestler and many modern antisemites the myth of the Jewish Khazar empire becomes an assertion that Jews are &#8220;really&#8221; Khazars. I can&#8217;t recall what the British Israelites assert, although I know that some have accepted the Khazar conspiracy theory. The point is that they too assert that Jews are not the &#8220;real&#8221; Jews.</p>
<p>In the hands of nationalists Jews are the rootless cosmopolitans: they are not &#8220;really&#8221; English or German, they are Jews. Worse, they are not Israeli either &#8211; the territory of Israel is &#8220;really&#8221; Arab, and the Jewish presence there is an historical mistake. You can quite readily find Arab nationalist tracts that deny there was ever a Jewish presence in Israel.</p>
<p>Why should it be surprising that linguistics is subject to the same meme? Hebrew alone, of all the world&#8217;s languages, has a &#8220;real&#8221; form which is to be contrasted with the unreal jargon spoken by Israelis. I speak English, as did Chaucer, although he wouldn&#8217;t understand me nor I understand him. Hebrew is different, because Jews assert an association with it. Since Jews are unreal, their language must also be unreal. Hebrew is a real language, therefore Israeli Hebrew must be an unreal language. QED.</p>
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		<title>By: Conrad</title>
		<link>http://benabuya.com/2006/12/02/israeli-vs-hebrew-a-contemporary-linguistic-debate/#comment-102</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Conrad]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Dec 2006 08:21:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Hey, I wasn&#039;t disagreeing with anything you wrote...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, I wasn&#8217;t disagreeing with anything you wrote&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Simon Holloway</title>
		<link>http://benabuya.com/2006/12/02/israeli-vs-hebrew-a-contemporary-linguistic-debate/#comment-101</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Simon Holloway]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Dec 2006 07:15:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deba.wordpress.com/2006/12/02/israeli-vs-hebrew-a-contemporary-linguistic-debate/#comment-101</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Not having ever studied Indo-European, I wasn&#039;t aware of that. That&#039;s quite interesting: I always took it on faith that Latin utilised a combination of both aspect &lt;i&gt;and&lt;/i&gt; tense. Still, even if what you say is true, Zuckermann focuses only on modern spoken Indo-European languages, primarily Yiddish.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not having ever studied Indo-European, I wasn&#8217;t aware of that. That&#8217;s quite interesting: I always took it on faith that Latin utilised a combination of both aspect <i>and</i> tense. Still, even if what you say is true, Zuckermann focuses only on modern spoken Indo-European languages, primarily Yiddish.</p>
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		<title>By: Conrad H. Roth</title>
		<link>http://benabuya.com/2006/12/02/israeli-vs-hebrew-a-contemporary-linguistic-debate/#comment-99</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Conrad H. Roth]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Dec 2006 03:09:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deba.wordpress.com/2006/12/02/israeli-vs-hebrew-a-contemporary-linguistic-debate/#comment-99</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t know what the current state of scholarship on the issue is, but 100 years ago Michel Breal argued quite convincingly that the Indo-European tense-system was originally an aspect-system, and that in fact the forms of the Latin and Greek verb correspond better to aspect-distinctions than tense-distinctions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know what the current state of scholarship on the issue is, but 100 years ago Michel Breal argued quite convincingly that the Indo-European tense-system was originally an aspect-system, and that in fact the forms of the Latin and Greek verb correspond better to aspect-distinctions than tense-distinctions.</p>
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